Reflections on the DV Program So Far & What's Next!?

There’s something paradoxical about trying to decentralize by… concentrating. That thought kept running through my mind as I was reviewing the numbers from the current Decentralized Voices cohort. We have been delegating 42 million DOT & 180k KSM worth of voting power to various DAOs from the community so they could act as highly active participants in OpenGov. The goal was clear: allow more responsible, thoughtful people in the Polkadot ecosystem to meaningfully influence governance decisions.

After a year, it’s working – if imperfectly. We’ve seen new voices, new groups, and a new culture of engagement emerge in Polkadot’s governance space.

Now, as we assess the current DV cohort’s performance and consider what comes next, we find ourselves at a crossroads. Was DV a temporary measure to jump-start wider participation - a “necessary centralization of the few to inspire the many” or did it simply create a new elite class of voters, “concentrated whales” in their own right?

This forum post dives into the data and the community’s perspectives, reflecting on what DV has achieved, where it fell short, and how we might co-create its next phase.

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DV Cohort Highlights: Participation & Outcomes

Over the current cohort and throughout the first month of delegation, the six DV delegates have been busy. They deliberated on dozens of Referenda and cast hundreds of votes. The delegates have different styles – some vote on nearly every proposal, others abstain more often. But interestingly, they mostly vote the same way as the broader voting community.

Our latest internal examination shows roughly 18.9% of outcomes would flip if we counted out the DV votes. In other words, DVs generally reinforce the majority voting view, but not always. After all, if that “changed outcome” number were 0%, there would be no point to having DVs at all – the fact that it’s nearly 19% means they carry real influence.

When the DV delegates do diverge from the crowd, it’s rare: fewer than 1 in 30 referenda saw the DVs’ majority vote split from the eventual result. In those handful of cases, proposals passed or failed even though most DVs opposed (or supported) them. Usually, though, the delegates add weight to the prevailing outcome. This balance – amplifying community voices without routinely flipping the vote – seems to be DV’s sweet spot. It is central to DV’s net impact.

There’s no one “right” way to vote, but these differences in participation matter. They reveal that even within this small group, we have diversity - not just of geography or background, but of temperament, risk tolerance, and governance ethos.

Now, on the positive side as well: DV clearly shook something loose in the governance landscape. Since it launched, we’ve seen better scrutiny of treasury proposals. Spending has tightened. Requests are more likely to be pushed into structured bounties instead of being waved through ad hoc. That’s a good trend. Several delegates have been especially rigorous in asking the hard questions: “Is this worth funding?” “Why is this urgent?” “Where’s the delivery?” “What are the metrics?” That kind of pressure matters. It’s discipline and it’s contagious. This is a structural win, although hard to measure quantitatively.

Even more importantly, DV seems to have inspired others. New DAOs formed around governance, including region-specific groups in Eastern Europe, China, and Latin America. Suddenly, people who never saw themselves as “governance folks” were stepping in. And I’d argue that part of that is the DV halo effect. People saw that it was possible to be taken seriously and get a seat at the table. You just had to show up, organize, and demonstrate thoughtfulness.

Perhaps the biggest success is cultural. DV has redistributed possibility. For example, Vikk from the Hungarian DAO once observed: “many new DAOs have emerged in the past few months and are actively participating in the decision-making process…I’m guessing this is because they’d like to be elected as a Decentralized Voice in the future.”


Of course, no experiment is perfect. Some issues have cropped up. A few community members have found that by joining multiple delegatable DAOs, they can multiply their influence. In practice this means the same players can essentially vote several times across different groups. As one commentator noted, this bundling of influence “stands in direct opposition to the original mission” of DV. It’s a real concern: if DVs simply create another elite class of multi-DAO whales, we haven’t really solved the centralization problem.

Another open question that has not been answered yet is accountability. DV delegates don’t vote with their own DOT; rather, they are delegated with W3F DOT. On the one hand, this shows trust; on the other, there’s no automatic penalty if someone votes irresponsibly (although all votes can be manually reviewed). The program’s rules do demand that delegates explain their votes and abstain on proposals where they have conflicts of interest.

Without consequences, how do we ensure accountability? We have called for abstentions in those cases, others called for public declarations. But there’s no rulebook, and maybe there should be. Suggestions include strict one-DAO-per-delegate policies, mandatory declaration of ties, or even formal penalty systems. In a system that’s supposed to be transparent and trustless, we’re relying a lot on unwritten ethics.

In theory, self-policing and public scrutiny should keep delegates honest. But some wonder: if a delegate makes a bad call, who pays the price? They don’t lose funds or reputation the way a normal voter would. This disconnect bothers people, and it’s worth figuring out whether additional guardrails are needed.

And this is where it gets philosophical

Because DV lives in this liminal space between direct democracy and delegated trust. On the one hand, we want every token holder to vote. On the other hand, we know most people won’t. So we delegate to active people, to thoughtful groups, to “voices.” But the moment we do that, we shift from participation to representation. And that’s not evil, it’s just a different kind of system. One with different risks and benefits. DV tried to thread the needle: amplify community voices without creating a new ruling class.

But can you do that perfectly? Can you hand out power without creating hierarchy? I’m not sure.

The Web3 Foundation does not want to be the sole voter on proposals. It wanted to distribute its influence to the community to responsible, thoughtful civic actors. In that sense, DV isn’t a delegation experiment only; it’s a governance mentorship. A cultural investment. A parachute, maybe, for a governance system that’s still learning to land.

The question now is: do we keep the parachute? Do we cut the cords and hope we glide? Or do we redesign it altogether?







The Road Ahead?

So now we’re here. The program is well underway, the results are mixed but meaningful and the time has come to decide: what next?

I keep thinking about the tension in the room and in previous conversations about the future of DV. There’s no clear consensus, not really. Just different undercurrents pulling in different directions. On one side, people are energized, DV brought new people into governance, fostered deliberation, even helped curb some reckless treasury spending. On the other hand, there’s growing unease: overlapping memberships, questions of accountability, fears we’ve just created a new form of soft centralization.

And maybe that’s the clearest sign the experiment was real: it stirred the water. It forced us to ask questions we weren’t ready to answer yet.

Below we sketch three broad options for DV’s next phase. These are just starting points for brainstorming, not final proposals. We welcome all creative and constructive suggestions. Think of these as conversation starters: mix and match ideas, imagine hybrids, or throw in something completely different. If you have a bold new governance model that supersedes DV, we want to hear it!

Scenario A: Sunset the Program

Core idea: End DV after the current cohort. Acknowledge that while DV had positive effects, its structural flaws now outweigh the benefits. Return to a pure token-holder voting system.

Key features:

  • Decentralized Voices as a formal program concludes.

  • The foundation may continue participating in governance, but without dedicated community delegates.

Scenario B: Expand & Distribute

Core idea: Double down on DV but spread the power more thinly. Add more delegates, each with a smaller DOT allocation, to reduce individual sway and further broaden representation.

Key features:

  • Increase the number of DV delegates (for example, 10 or more instead of 6).

  • Give each delegate a smaller stake (e.g. 1–2 M DOT each rather than 7 M).

  • Prioritize diverse representation (more regions, different focus areas or communities).

  • With more voices and each holding less power, the overall influence is distributed more widely.

Scenario C: Reform & Co-create DV 2.0

Core idea: Redesign DV in partnership with the community. Fix the problems while keeping DV’s catalytic energy. Think of it as DV 2.0 co-created with everyone’s input.

Key features:

  • Introduce community-nominated or elected delegates alongside appointed ones.

  • Set term limits or rotate delegates periodically to prevent any one group from entrenching power.

  • Formalize conflict-of-interest rules (e.g. mandatory public declarations, clear abstention requirements).

  • Require delegates to bond some DOT as “skin in the game,” aligning incentives with their votes.

Create a mentorship pipeline: pair veteran governance groups with up-and-coming ones to train new DVs.

Again: these scenarios are not exhaustive, they’re conversation starters. Imagine hybrids (for example, combine expansion with some reforms) or totally new ideas. Maybe DV could evolve into something no one’s thought of yet. The point is to brainstorm. All suggestions – even wild ones – are welcome.

Why this post? and what’s next?

This post isn’t presenting conclusions; it’s asking questions. We’ll take the community’s feedback and use it to draft a few non-binding “wish-for-change” referenda in OpenGov. These polls won’t immediately alter the rules, but they’ll gauge sentiment on where to go next. Your input here will directly shape those questions.

So please: critique these ideas, propose improvements, or propose entirely new paths. If you see a blind spot in our thinking, call it out. Let’s leverage the diversity of our community – veteran governance minds and new voices alike – to co-create the next chapter of Decentralized Voices.

17 Likes

Thanks for this exhaustive post !
Yeah this issue is a tough one to crack.

I’d need to think about it for a while but as a hot take:
Yeah we need accountability for DVs but idk if it’s technically possible to do. Even fragmenting them wouldn’t help I think since you would have the same issue but with more smaller DVs.

Scenario B - but instead of spreading the power across more delegates (and the issues that come with that), simply reduce the power to the same number of delegates. I hope this will encourage more personal-stake voters to engage so OpenGov can continue to mature instead of relying on a council of DAOs to make the majority decisions.

The DV program has been a net positive. The delegate feature of OpenGov is essential. There is a warping influence, however, when such a large stake is delegated to those without their own skin in the game.

My experience is that it has made discourse less attached to outcomes and more about image & philosophy.

OpenGov has matured fastest when those participating feel the immediate effects of their decisions - even (and especially) when those decisions turned out to be wrong.

In any case, KusDAO will continue to offer a DV avenue optimized for Participation, accessibility, info discovery & high transparency.

6 Likes

I would love to see the ability to be able to vote for the Decentralized Voices delegates. Is this possible?

If you end up going with scenario B or C, there should be a rule that prevents individuals from being members of multiple DV groups.

And DVs should probably abstain from proposals that benefit one of the voting members of that DV.

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What to govern is more important than how to govern. Walking with like-minded people is more important than traveling far away.

Polka technology is leading. Application should be king. Users only pay for the price and application. Sell applications instead of technology.

The direction of Polka’s governance should be to give real builders more say. Instead of boasting and not being rooted in ecological applications.

We should support the strong. Support diversification. But the premise is that they should be the people who are skilled in the game. POH may be a powerful tool.

I personally focus on Polkadot DeFi, and I deeply understand the importance of DeFi to the ecosystem. So my suggestion is that DVs should support hydration

@Zendetta - this is a great write up.

Personal choice is:

Option B - with a couple extras -
Expand Regionally (many more regions & countries)
Distribute by Seniority (number of DV terms held)
Distribute by Proof of Stake (multiplier on existing tokens held) - optional -

Would like to see many more regions becoming more involved in governance as this is (and has been) a major catalyst for involvement in OpenGov and Polkadot itself.

Would like to see amount of DOT allocated reduced drastically and based on terms of seniority.
1M DOT at today’s prices is just under 5M USD in voting power - and seems a reasonable amount for a vetted, in good standing, experienced DV.

Directing Governance with millions of DOT is something that must be earned over time - not given, as continuously ‘giving it away’ will deter any large organic purchase of DOT for governance - instead - incentivize obtaining a DV position - or even worse - attempting to game the DV system itself with bribery, extortion and backroom deals.

Quite possible that a DV may have to show proof of stake as well before obtaining DV position - working with a multiplier and based on seniority status to determine size (optional)

PS - should the program increase - and increase in a sizeable way - it begins to remove duplicate DV’s, organically. Of course there will be some - in where DV’s are open forums for anyone to join - for at the same time there will be closed door DV’s - or certain groups who have opinion A vs groups with opinion B or C.

Just like an actual decentralized network functions - the DV delegation system could mirror this same concept.

Thanks for your diligence on the matter.
J

1 Like

A very timely conversation!

I believe the best path would be Option B, with a few additional points:

  • Increase the number of delegates.
  • If the community is involved in selecting these delegates, design a system where active participants get one vote—perhaps only accounts with verified identities.
  • Require clearer rules within each DAO (to prevent double voting and limit attempts to influence multiple DAOs at once).
  • Design a system to evaluate DAOs across multiple aspects, giving them a score—this score could determine their eligibility for future participation in the program.
  • Continuously rotate and carefully assess the DAO members considered for inclusion (to again prevent overlapping influence across DAOs).
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There is undoubtedly the push for removing the DV program influence right now and perhaps morphing it into a DV-lite sort of program which is fair if that is the wish of the W3F who is the original delegate party that allows the existence of the DV program. There is already the rationale that the DV work should not be seen as a complete focus but rather a partial focus of the DVs.

As presented by Ryan
https://x.com/ThePhunky1/status/1915804178674290960
DV work is heavy so morphing this program into a DV-lite activity should be done taken certain considerations.

As a potential pitfall of removing it altogether (Scenario A) is the danger that legitimate dangerous referenda such as 824 pass:

https://x.com/Cointelegraph/status/1920252470556590514

In this case from our side we presented the evidence about dubious character and a potentially harmful project to other DVs directly (something we don’t normally do due to our non-interference policy) but this kind of referendum glows hard and it’s impossible to ignore and to not alert other DVs and voters so that they also vote against it.

If the DV program is to sunset completely then a W3F alternative that defends against these pitfalls is required. DVs in a way work as a last line of defense against extremely harmful referenda which must be fulfilled by other party.

A counterargument is to have entity A or B vote which would fulfill the role naturally but as we all know these governance attacks are bound to become more sophisticated over time so a last line of defense is needed at present due to OpenGov’s design. Leaving this issue unattended certainly will open the way to new potential extremely harmful governance attacks.

For the reduction of delegation to 1-2M DOT and the increase in number of delegates to 10 (or any variation thereof) it was already tried so that scenario carries heavy warnings. Many of these parties were never to be seen again in the voting arena, development or decision making. Trying it again with potentially more “mature delegated voters” might work but we already know the pitfalls of this approach so we have to be aware of them.
As others have already correctly identified on the comments, alternatives are the inclusion of a rule of “no voter overlap” between DVs as well as other highly delegated voters or entities with high voting power or members thereof. We already have two precedents, Giotto as a DV candidate (Candidacy as a DV Delegate - Giotto De Filippi) and Scytale Digital as DV (Decentralized Voices: Cohort 2 - Scytale Digital). Love to both parties and what they do or did but if the idea is to multiply the diversity of DVs and points of view then the best idea is to not delegate to parties and their members that can already tilt the OpenGov balance by themselves or that have already substantial voting power delegated to.
A requirement for abstentions or a vote against if the recipient of funds is a member of a DV might also work but this will definitely be discussed in depth here.
Hopefully also DV non-interference clauses get added to it.

A variation of scenario B
Many think that the DV delegation is way too high so it discourages holders to vote. Reducing such delegation to 1-2M DOT or even less and keeping the same number of DVs could achieve this goal as well. This could also be subject to change for whatever the reasons in the next cohort.

More Wild Ideas

W3F Vote override
The W3F already has rules in place that discourages bad behavior like malfeasance. So if Saxemberg wants 13.47M DOT from the treasury (all available DOT at the moment), makes a referendum and votes in favor, it will make the W3F to undelegate Saxemberg.
However, vote override for non-malicious votes if they really deem it necessary could be an option. So if there is a vote that requires change because the W3F thinks its a must then the W3F will take an executive vote overriding the delegation of the DVs. This would also remove decision making power from the DVs.
If such decision making cannot be done by the W3F, then an alternative entity could be created in order to cast those votes. The Internet Computer already has this in place with the ICA (Internet Computer Association) which is in some way already takes direct decisions on its governance.

DV delegation DOT firesale.:fire:
This is a variation based on the previously proposed idea by Transistor’s Peter which is to have the DV allocation open for sale to accredited investors, institutional investors over a certain threshold at a discounted price.
https://forum.polkadot.network/t/transistor-version-0-1-political-philosophy-for-decentralized-voices-candidacy

So the DOT delegated to the DVs is permanently reduced as long as large investors have bought a given amount of it. In such a way, investors get to vote, invest at a certain percentage discount and get rid of that pesky DVs delegated power permanently. Obviously details of this fire sale have to be attractive for both Polkadot as well as the investors.

Just some thoughts about this and possible ways forward.

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No, because it’s a W3F program, and thus external to Polkadot Treasury & OpenGov

I think the DV initiative was really good and important, but it’s extremely revealing how little organic voting power most of the DV recipients have managed to garner via delegation or even self-delegation.

2 Likes

Thanks @Zendetta for bringing that up including detailed explanations and data

First, I’d argue that the DV influence is actually much higher than 18.9% because of another criteria called “first move” which I’m not sure was taken into account. There are many voters who vote based on momentum because they don’t believe they can really change anything. DV candidate has the power to determine the direction of a vote right at the beginning and pull all the other voters with them accordingly.

In addition, the voting participation in general isn’t so high (2-4% of the total DOT circulation), where the majority part of that is the DV themselves.

The main consequence of those two factors is that the DV program is much more centralized than it should be. Meaning, people/DAOs without any skin in the game are having strong influence on Polkadot openGov decisions.

I always claimed that the minimum required from the DV participants is to have some skin in the game (could be similar to the DN program which requires minimum self bond from the elected validators), but now I think this program needs to be fully sunset.

We should find better ways to encourage polkadot holders to participate in openGov and giving such power to few people/DAOs isn’t the way. It does the exact opposite by turning it centralized and pushing people away because they don’t think they can really influence when some elected people/DAOs already have such a significant power.

Having said that, if eventually the program remains, I’d fully reshape it accordingly:

  1. Any DV should deposit a minimum 5000 DOT (that can be slashed for malicious behavior) in order to become a DV member.

  2. Maximum voting power per each DV - 500k (after maximum conviction).

  3. DV candidate compensation should be paid from the staked token rewards they received.

Thanks again for bringing that up.

*** disclaimer - I don’t know how relevant it is, but just in case I’ll add that Legend Nodes is a DN member. ***

I think we need to keep in mind the original impetus behind the creation of the DV program. My understanding is that it was introduced to counter balance the influence that a few whale accounts were wielding in OpenGov. DV would likely not have been created if the average DOT holder vote participation rate was higher, which is the real issue I think we should be focusing on.

I would like to see greater exploration of mechanisms which could link incentives to OpenGov participation. DOT holders are incentivised to secure the network in the form of rewards/ avoiding dilution, could they be similarly incentivised to vote or at least delegate their vote? The model citizen is the account who both stakes and votes, so it makes sense that the highest rewards should accrue to those who actively contribute in both areas.. IMO if you stake but don’t vote or delegate you are doing less for the network and should be rewarded less accordingly.

TLDR: DV was a rapid response created to offset outsized influence whales were having in OpenGov. The real problem is low voter turnout and how it can be increased. Maybe link staking rewards to OpenGov participation?

I feel like this isn’t accurate:

Our latest internal examination shows roughly 18.9% of outcomes would flip if we counted out the DV votes. In other words, DVs generally reinforce the majority voting view, but not always. After all, if that “changed outcome” number were 0%, there would be no point to having DVs at all – the fact that it’s nearly 19% means they carry real influence.

It’s not possible to separate out what the non-DV vote would look like from the DV vote, because DVs are actively participating in and shaping the discussion and decision making. I would say the DV delegation is not just reflected in the vote itself, but a) the voice it provides to different community members, and b) the engagement in due diligence done by those DV communities, which is generally shared outwards with the community.

In addition, one of the benefits of DV is that it does raise voices to the surface (both votes and measured opinions) that wouldn’t otherwise be shared, and that brings richness to the decision making. Many people are scared to vote and make their decisions known because they fear retribution. As representatives of the community, DVs have a reason to take on that burden, to surface opinions like this from stakeholders.

Before DVs, it was very hard to even reach voters and have a discussion. You have a chance to have a dialogue with voters with weight and flip votes, which was never possible with anonymous whales. That is very valuable to the community and to proposers. If you didn’t have that, the governance would be skewed towards people that are better at marketing or a social following or better at influence, rather than proposals with more merit.

I think there needs to be a discussion around tokenholder representation vs. stakeholder representation. To me, DV is about providing some stakeholder representation for the network, and it’s based around the idea that Polkadot will be a stronger network over the long term if decison-making takes into account not just capital but also representatives the totality of the network, including users, builders, community, contributors, etc.

100% agree with the statement that overall voter participation needs to increase from current holders and even new investors need to be encouraged to vote.
Though, building a new incentive system around voting is an idea that has been floated on Polkadot and even tried outside of it. The main problems that arise from that are long term investor disenfranchisement and most importantly automatic voting which is nearly impossible to get rid of. The easiest way to vote in a system that requires your vote participation is to either instaNAY or instaABSTAIN everything. A third potential issue not to be overlooked either is spam referenda.

It’s a W3F program, not controlled by governance, so yes W3F would read what people write here, but they’ll be worried firstly about other concerns, like governance capture. I doubt they’ll change anything too quickly regardless.

I’m not too involved with governance, but I’ve only heard one concrete criticism: Some people were members of multiple DV teams, so ideally W3F should prevent that in future.

I suppose each DV team could be required to have

  • all team members identified to W3F, maybe KYC plus interview,
  • one established DN member to represent small validators,
  • two+ solid ecosystem developers, so developer employees of a parachain project (not all the same one) or folks doing tooling, but anyways real code output on github. Two+ here because we assume they’re too busy for governance stuff most of the time.

No forcing people to vote, but DV teams should find members who fit those criteria.

It’s possible to have DVs be more geographically distributed too, like maybe limit team membership from North America, and/or slightly favor team members who live in emerging markets: South America, Africa, India, and South East Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Indonisia, etc). It’s clear some past governance expenses were weirdly focused upon the USA.

To secure Polkadot’s decentralized future until personhood is solved, I propose a more robust DV system with 10 DAOs (5M DOT each) and 10 individuals (1M DOT each).

Entity Voting Power (DOT) Role in Governance
10 DAOs 50M (5M each) Provide stability, collective influence
10 Individuals 10M (1M each) Add agility, prevent groupthink, tip votes

This DV increase aligns better with current needs, especially given recent cases where we see single anonymous wallets holding ~18M voting power, providing no rationale when voting. Their single vote effectively overrides 3 DVs composed of many passionate individuals voting in the network’s best interest. Such whale behavior, with insufficient guard rails in place, risks prioritizing personal gain over Polkadot’s wellbeing, so we certainly need some form of DV program in the interim.

1. Add Individual DVs to Prevent Groupthink
DAOs bring collective strength, but their consensus-driven nature risks groupthink, where members can blindly endorse flawed plans. Individual DVs counter this with sharp, independent perspectives, challenging assumptions and sparking debate. With no group/logo to hide behind, they face direct accountability, driven to prioritize Polkadot’s future.

Their ~10M DOT can sway votes or flag risks, keeping governance dynamic. An individual with DV status can quickly challenge a flawed proposal and share clear reasoning, educating other voters for informed decisions. DAOs may lag to vote due to waiting for feedback from all/most members, internal debates, etc. Including 10 independent ecosystem “stewards” with a proven record of prioritizing Polkadot’s health diversifies perspectives, breaks echo chambers, and helps prevent costly missteps

2. Implement a More Structured DV Selection Process:
A clear, community-driven process using on-chain OpenGov tools (e.g., voting, nomination periods) with clear requirements set forth well in advance (outlined below) would add transparency around the DV selection process.

IMO it would be v. interesting to see a new “election” OpenGov model of sorts, in which the community votes on a poll of new candidates similar to primary election etc. In doing so, people are able to voice potential concerns and/or weigh in positively on the candidates before a final vote and decision was made by W3F. Although this would take changes to OpenGov to become reality, this would take at least some of the burden off of W3F from having to solely decide who should get DV status once implemented.

3. Refine DAO DV Voting Standards:
Adopt a standardized voting framework for selected DAO DVs, modeled on best practices like we have at Permanence DAO, where clear vote thresholds are set for different OpenGov tracks to ensure genuine consensus. We must move away from DAOs where 2-3 multisig holders can potentially dictate outcomes, wielding disproportionate influence by leveraging their DAO’s collective voting power to potentially push personal agendas, with no recourse possible from that DAO’s other members (who may have their vote power effectively “trapped” in the DAO in the near-term due to past delegation conviction locks).

4. Establishing Clear Criteria for Earning DV Status:
For this system to work best, and to incentivize more OpenGov participation, W3F should consider introducing more strict requirements for DAOs and individuals to earn/apply for DV status.. proving their commitment:

  • Record 100+ OpenGov votes with comprehensive reasoning provided for the decision, demonstrating active governance participation and improving feedback loop to proposers. Voting alone is not sufficient. Providing quality, direct feedback is key.
  • Provide evidence of 2+ years of involvement in Polkadot (e.g., subscan data)
  • Show no past conflicts of interest, ensuring impartiality.
  • Provide evidence of community activism, like leading initiatives, starting thoughtful conversations, prioritizing Polkadot’s interests, etc.
  • Perhaps require 1000+ DOT staked for individuals that can be slashed if bad acting occurs.
  • Must have an Identity set among other basic requirements not worth mentioning.

Just my .02.. curious to learn what others think

1 Like
  • Scenario B with less DOT bonded to DVs

  • ideally, DVs should have skin in the game determined by % of bonded DOT to voting power. i.e. all DVs must have at least 20% of the DV delegation in their personal accounts. The privacy concern is invalid cos DV is a public-facing role. If you wish to lead and make decisions, you have to be willing to give up some information about yourself (i.e. how many DOT you’ve locked for the longterm). the rationale simply being that anyone with skin in the game is doubly-incentivized to vote with longterm consequences in mind. this can be waived if the DV candidate has displayed proof-of-alignment through longterm participation in the ecosystem. but even if this caveat is used, then it should be limited to only a % of DV (less than 40%).

  • there shouldn’t be overlapping members for various DAOs. a person must choose which DAO they want to belong to. once chosen, they have to stick with it, or leave said DAO for another. but the problem becomes, how do we enforce this? DAOs should keep an updated list of their members, updated bi-weekly or so. or updated whenever there are changes to member groups. ideally, we should be able to see who is in which DAO (if they are DVs). so i think monthly member disclosure should be part of the deal.

  • i also do not believe that making the process more community-driven will fix the problems. in fact, i think that the W3F has to act as the guardians of this process. because, in the end, they can act and be held responsible for things that happen. a team within W3F that pays attention to OpenGov to see not just the stats, but also the contexts. i.e. are there DVs that performed greatly in the past? if yes, why can the W3F not decide to retain them? we shouldn’t rinse all the DVs in the name broadening participation. the goal of governance isn’t to get broad participation. it is to make the best decisions for Polkadot’s future. so all decisions should flow from this. let’s not be poisoned by the irrational desire to make everything everywhere more democratic.

3 Likes

Interesting, I hadn’t considered the auto-voting issue, which definitely seems like the biggest roadblock. That said, it also means that if we can solve it, we might actually be able to start thinking seriously about a working mechanism.

To me, it raises the question of whether we should even allow auto-voting at all. Right now it’s only possible because bots can monitor the chain and submit extrinsics directly. If all voting had to be done through Polkassembly, Subsquare, or another interface that implemented a session verification protocol (hCaptcha, Signature over metadata etc), it would become far more realistic to detect and prevent automated voting. No doubt automation would still be possible, but the effort required to maintain it could be made to exceed that of just engaging with the process properly.

People will probably argue this approach might be too centralising, but I don’t think that holds up. Polkassembly and Subsquare are already the natural Schelling points for proposal discussion in OpenGov, and they’re both fully funded by the treasury. They’re effectively part of OpenGov IMO. If you don’t use one of these sites, you’re unlikely to know what any proposal is actually about.

In a way, these platforms are like governance clients, just as we have node clients that implement the Polkadot protocol in different languages. The important thing isn’t the implementation, it’s that they follow a common protocol. So rather than forcing anyone to use a specific site, we could define a lightweight context verification protocol that any governance frontend could implement. That way, other platforms can emerge and compete, but they still need to meet the same basic standard around session-based context verification.

On the question of long-term investors who don’t want to vote, I don’t see that as a blocker. If someone wants to maintain the staking rewards they’re used to without actively voting, they can just delegate their vote to someone else. The key point is that if we can solve the automation issue, then linking full staking rewards to active participation, either directly or via delegation, starts to make a lot more sense.