A quick open question to the ecosystem…
If you are or plan to enter the Polkadot ecosystem, share how you feel about this of ChaosDAO?
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I like ChaosDAO very much
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I like ChaosDAO very much
What about the other DVs who have NAY’d your past proposals?
We should also learn how people feel about those, no?
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Personally, I don’t like it🙂. Why? Because I’ve noticed that they tend to reject most proposals without giving feedback or suggestions for improvement. I’ve seen valuable proposals voted ‘no’, while more trivial ones, or maybe from their own circle, do get support. For example, requesting €30,000 from the treasury to hand out beer at Decoded… yes, I drank beer, but I believe most of us attended to learn and connect with others, not to see how we spend €30,000 on beer. Then, they reject a $4,000 proposal that included workshops, parachain integration, courses for companies, and collaborations with Polkadot projects, all developed over six months in various locations, with the same purpose.
Link proposal: Retroactive tip by 6 months at Polkadot Peru and international activities | Polkassembly
I don’t understand their reasons for rejecting these proposals, but it would be much more constructive if they at least explained why.
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fak CD… why chaos dao do this?
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I like ChaosDAO very much
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ChaosDAO is amazing
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GM
- It was not 30k euros, we returned 3,454 out of 4,504 DOT as we said we would x.com but nice try
- Regarding feedback, we did not leave feedback on a lot of refs due to fairly obvious quid-pro-quo votes by other DVs which effectively nullified our vote. You might say that this is part of the reason that DV cohort 3 has some KYC requirements: “All delegates must verify their identity before being accepted into the program” and also has a bias towards groups, and not individuals who can be more perceptible to this issue – and also compensates DVs for the amount of time it takes to gather + generate feedback.
- The standard should be if a referendum is not an absolute banger, then it should be NAY’d.
- We are, at the time of writing, one of TEN DVs. If we are single-handedly making your referendum fail then it shows that it did not get community support. We do not have 50m votes to single-handedly decide referendums, so any argument that we can by ourselves cause your referendum to fail is complete nonsense.
FWIW ChaosDAO has also had issues with small requests in OpenGov, for example, we once requested $2,000 and that referendum turned out to be the most voted upon referendum on Kusama at that time. Even though this bot is now used by many groups, including a lot that are going for DV cohort 3 ^^
If your referendum is rejected, try again. We are not the reason your referendums fail. We do not possess that kind of voting power.
As I replied to the OP, there are other DVs who also NAY’d their refs multiple times.
In your case there are other DVs who also voted NAY, I imagine they are part of the problem too, right? 
because even if we didn’t vote, your ref would have failed. But I guess it’s still our fault, right? Because we didn’t AYE?
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btw, out of the €30,000 requested, only €5797.3 was used. The remainder was sent back to treasury. (in dot: 4,504 DOT requested, 3,454.61 DOT returned)
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Trying to move away from the meme conversations here, as an active member of this community, I have the feeling that ChaosDAO is an extremely positive group in the community.
They seem to be strongly aligned with the fundamental philosophies and principals of Web3 and Polkadot. They have built and use open source tools for our ecosystem and developing functioning DAOs.
They have a fun meme culture, and people in ChaosDAO seem to appreciate the community beyond just building blockchains. Honestly, a great showcase of how Polkadot has embraced and succeeded in creating decentralized communities.
However, there also seems to be many in the community who feel the opposite.
- Is it good that they vote NAY without any justification?
- Not really, I think that is generally a bad practice.
- Is it bad they vote NAY on anything?
- No. Nay is default.
If you want your proposal to pass, you can talk to any of the huge number of public personalities who are super active and responsive in ChaosDAO to try and convince them to advocate for you.
Otherwise, ChaosDAO is not the only DOT holder, and there are plenty of other holders you can convince to support you allowing you to succeed even with a ChaosDAO nay.
I don’t mean to be too biased here, but I will say my current feeling is that those who are against ChaosDAO (especially in the context of a particular proposal) are usually people who I think are on the wrong side of history.
- Who can give me an example where ChaosDAO voted NAY, where you think it would be most obvious to someone like me that this was the wrong choice?
- Who can give me an example of the same thing where ChaosDAO voted AYE?
Honest dialogue here, lets not deteriorate the conversation.
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I am all for DAOs and I think they are tremendously beneficial for our ecosystem. I can clearly see the value that Chaos brings.
But I also have the feeling that, on certain occasions, ChaosDAO could be alienating potential development/business teams from choosing our ecosystem.
Fun/memes in the particular context of project funding I think is way too risky in our situation, and I don’t have anything against memes or fun. I would pick them carefully, and always reflect on the perception of a quality teams considering to join our ecosystem.
I can see and share the issues that our treasury faces in terms of proper management of funds, and the past all-yes issues… and I acknowledge the contribution of ChaosDAO.
However, we equally face significant challenges in attracting quality teams that deliver killer applications, bring top liquidity, or makes us known across the world.
The brutal fact is that other ecosystems are growing significantly compared to ours.
To illustrate with a concrete example that caught my eye at the time: x.com
Luckily no one replied with a playlist with songs like: Sunny, Here comes the Sun, etc.
So, I am all in for Chaos as DAO, the FUN, the MEMEs, but my feedback (yes, we all get feedback in this community 
) is make it in a way which everybody enjoys, in particular those valuable teams considering to join us.
Honest conversation @shawntabrizi ?
The damage that ChaosDao is currently causing to the Polkadot ecosystem is absolutely immense.
ChaosDao is causing long-term damage that is hidden in the short term, but has lasting effects that are devastating the Polkadot ecosystem.
Anyone with the good will to work in Polkadot eventually become demotivated and willing to move to less toxic environments. So many builders and enthusiasts have already been lost.
- ChaosDao creates constant negativity and drama in the community (HA drama being the latest example)
- ChaosDao members dominating discussions to the detriment of others, only able to show off to each other after screwing up (as in this thread).
- Elitist attitudes, arrogance, nepotism, derogatory treatment of OpenGov proposals and members.
- Playing with OpenGov’s money as their own - look at this proposal they voted for and approved themselves Delegate POL DOT to ChaosDAO
(Hydra and ChaosDao? Typical mafia attitude)
ChaosDao is literally a metastatic cancer that is killing Polkadot from within.
“Extremely positive for the community” you mention? After all that has happened with HA? Wow, that’s absolutely impressive.
We have two cases here: or this is a lie, or a malicious lie. Take your pick.
And then everyone cries because Polkadot has a shrinking community. What a joke, seriously.
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@sadPolka while your post is extremely emotional, you fail to present objective details.
It seems people are unhappy to have an organization call out when Polkadot is doing things wrong, and also calling out when other teams have low quality performance and outcomes.
However, this is exactly what we need. Polkadot is not a traditional company with some CEO at the top, managers in the middle, and performance reviews and bonuses to provide feedback to individuals. Polkadot DOES get targeted by a lot of actors who are either malicious, or think of themselves more than they should.
Making a culture around NAY is good for Polkadot, especially knowing there are multiple avenues to get funded beyond the treasury: Funding Opportunities · Polkadot Wiki
It seems your answer to “what is a proposal they voted aye on that you would vote nay” is their proposal for Hydration to delegate their DOT to ChaosDAO.
As I understand, this DOT they are delegating is owed by Hydration, not something that is part of any DOT loans for liquidity or bootstrapping to anything. It is the choice of the Hydration ecosystem how they want to use the DOT they own, just like any other individual or organization.
I encourage more teams to follow along in this behavior. There literally cannot be anything bad said about having more DOT participate in OpenGov.
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@rvalle the problems you seem to be describing are not problems stemming from ChaosDAO, but the challenges that the Polkadot Ecosystem decided to take on by establishing a principle of building decentralized, resilient, open governance systems.
Doing things decentralized is NOT easier. Nothing about blockchain is more efficient or more capable than a centralized system. But it provides tools and services in a way which cannot be censored by others, and is resilient to central control.
I encourage NAY culture. It is fucking gross to see random crypto teams come to Polkadot for the first time and ask for $10M. These kind of guys don’t know anything about Polkadot. They don’t care about the success of our ecosystem. They are looking to extract as much money as they can from us, and deliver as little as possible.
Real high quality teams will spend the time and effort to integrate themselves into our community, and in those cases, I have never seen these kinds of proposals fail, or be NAYed by ChaosDAO.
But again, I am happy to be proven wrong. You chose not to present any objective examples like I had asked.
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Tbh, I don’t get how an active group of people can be seen as a bad example for Polkadot. Actually much more people should nay proposals if they are not the best proposal you ever read. This hopefully leads to better proposals.
Also ChaosDao is not abusing the system or doing anything wrong. I read this often and this is just not true. People have delegated their funds to them, because they trust their assessment. If these people would not trust into how ChaosDao is voting, they can just delegate to someone else. It is really not that complicated or any way corrupt. Why are people not complaining about other holders who nay proposals? Also ChaosDao is only having a voting power of 9.5M Dot. There are individuals who have much more voting power. They may change a vote from time to time, but they are not the ones deciding.
If people want better outcomes, we need more delegations to groups/individuals who also read proposals and give their opinions. In the end anyone taking part in OpenGov is a politician. It requires time and knowledge to look into all these proposals and just ayeing a proposal if someone doesn’t has time to fully understand a proposal is not a good idea.
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@Leemo , I don’t know if you have something against me and if so I invite you to talk 
.
I made this post so that people can express their feelings about ChaosDAO (CD); about that I would like to know 
the relationship between your feelings about CD and the retroactive proposals that I have generated, in which CD never responded when I tagged them nor did they comment.
It strikes me that you use references from other DVs as an excuse to justify the lack of communication from the largest group in the ecosystem, the work of DV is not free, there is significant compensation for that. In the image I presented where I am not attacking anyone (sorry if you felt that way ) I just show how CD voting power is so great that 3 DVs are needed (and this is not a minor detail) to be able to counteract it.
There are many people who strive every day to make Polkadot the best ecosystem but history has shown that the accumulation of power, the lack of transparency and poor communication are very worrying attitudes 
.
Spiderman’s philosophy says that with great power comes great responsibility, and just to give an example; in their last 14 votes cast, they have only given their positive vote to 14% of those proposals, most of them without explanations 
. This does not mean that CD should say yes to everything, but it is worth reflecting on the impact and influence CD is generating.
I hope that as a co-founder you can take the initiative to share the comments that people make to encourage greater participation and make self-criticism that allows CD to improve.
Polkadot is no longer just a group of friends, efforts are being made to bring international organizations to join and these types of actions are valued 
when making the decision to participate or not.
My invitation for everyone is to build a better ecosystem togheter 
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the work of DV is not free, there is significant compensation for that.
To date, DVs have received 0 compensation for their work - DV cohort 3 will include some vested DOT as compensation, but cohorts 1 & 2 received nothing.
There are many people who strive every day to make Polkadot the best ecosystem
I agree - but that doesn’t mean that these efforts provide any value to Polkadot, nor does it mean that the Polkadot Treasury should pay for those efforts. There is not some base human right to receive funding from the Treasury.
Spiderman’s philosophy says that with great power comes great responsibility
Much more of a Thor kinda guy personally - “This drink, I like it! ANOTHER!”
My invitation for everyone is to build a better ecosystem togheter
Absolutely agree - I am excited to start seeing more groups/ DAOs forming and agents working to shape the future of Polkadot.
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To be absolutely crystal clear here, as there appears to be some confusion around the 438,700 DOT delegated by Hydration DAO to ChaosDAO in OpenGov - these DOT are owned by Hydration as Protocol Owned Liquidity, and were accumulated on-chain from the following referenda:
First $50K - Initiate the first Treasury DCA orders
Second $500K - Initiate the second Treasury DCA orders
Third $500K - Initiate the third Treasury DCA orders
Fourth $500K - Add liquidity to Omnipool & initiate DOT DCA round 5
First bonds campaign which we accumulated DOT from - On-chain remark: Launch bonds
Fifth $500K - Remove LBP liquidity, remove DAI (MRL) from Omnipool, create new DCA orders & authorize runtime release v20.1.1
Sixth $150K - DCA 150,000 DAI for DOT
Second bonds campaign - Launch second bonds event
Seventh $350K - DCA 350,000 DAI for DOT
Eighth $280K - DCA 280,000 USDT to DOT
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My feeling is super-mega happy to delegate to ChaosDAO. Most holders should.
As a non-technical person, ChaosDAO is the best thing about Polkadot governance right now. Truth is that almost all proposals that aren’t grifts are usually bad ideas that I don’t have the time, interest or expertise to review. I’m in favour of blanket NAY. Prove your worth or go get private money.
If your proposal fails it is not ChaosDAO fault, you need to do better.
DV program should be terminated because quid pro quo - a favor or advantage granted or expected in return for something. A DV without skin in the game can be easily bribed. This obvious problem was pointed out before the DV program even started.
All I see from the ambassadors is wasting time fighting each other and griping about pay, which frankly they mostly don’t deserve. The only ambassadors that I have seen actually doing something to communicate with and connect people is Leemo and the lady that does gaming stuff.
That is how I feel. Thanks for asking.
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@shawntabrizi I agree we had a past YES culture that has already being fixed.
But publicly mocking projects with 5000 views in X, is simply not smart. We need to attract talent, and we are failing at it.
To NAY a project is OK, but do it with respect. In particular DVs are representatives, they are speaking for the rest of us.
There are many DAOs out there, Polkadot DAO is far from the only one. You can read their messages and check their behavior. Some are professional, efficient, attract talent and generate recurring revenues. They are growing faster than us. We need start being more humble, if we want to succeed.
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